The Unmasking of Business Marketing During Changing Times
Feature Interview With Bestselling Author Mark Schaefer
My connection to Mark W. Schaefer began in 2011 with the original version of his book Tao of Twitter: “Changing Your Life and Business One Connection At A Time.”
It was one of the first books I downloaded on my Amazon Kindle, back when Twitter was a mere 5 years old.
Today Mark is a globally recognized educator, keynote speaker, business consultant, and author. His well-known blog is one of the most acclaimed marketing blogs in the world. And then there’s his Marketing Companion podcast which is in the top 1% of all business shows on iTunes.
I follow his stuff religiously because it’s so useful and damn interesting. Mark is always fully authentic without bloviation and French pastry. Readers of his insights are afforded the opportunity to always be learning something new.
In addition to authoring the world's best-selling book on Twitter (The Tao of Twitter), the first book on influencer marketing (Return On Influence), an essential book on blogging (Born to Blog), a beloved introduction to social media marketing (Social Media Explained), a path-finding book on content marketing (The Content Code), a book of essays (LESSONS), the world's most popular book on personal branding (KNOWN), and "Marketing Rebellion" an Amazon best-seller that is a spell-binding look at the unexpected future of marketing.
Currently, I am in the throes of reading his newest book, "Cumulative Advantage: How to Build Momentum for Your Ideas, Business, and Life Against All Odds" which offers a profoundly interesting look at the challenge that many of us face in standing out in a world where we are overwhelmed with information. It’s Mark's best work ever — I highly recommend it!
Having felt like I’ve known Mark forever from our frequent interaction on LinkedIn and Twitter, I reached out to him with an invitation to do a feature interview. He agreed and our conversation was epic — akin to hanging out at a campfire chatting while roasting smores. Check out our conversation below:
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: In light of the times that we're in, the new pandemic reality, I was wondering if you could just start with some of your observations of the last 12 to 18 months relative to this new pandemic reality and its impact on the marketing space.
MARK W. SCHAEFER: Well, you didn't tell me this was going to be a two-day interview [Laughter]. So let me start off with a broad idea about the pandemic and marketing, and then really, narrow it down to a very specific and actionable idea based on this new book, Cumulative Advantage.
So first of all, what I've been saying is that we are entering an era of unintended consequences. What I mean by this is that when we went into the pandemic, we guessed wrong about everything. By way of example, who would have thought we'd run out of lumber, right, in a pandemic? Or that housing prices would go up? Or that it would have completely reset expectations in terms of workforce employment, right? And with all of this, we’re suddenly confronted with this complex cocktail of new consumer behaviors.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: How do you believe we, then, begin to get our arms around all of this, particularly with respect to businesses seeking to restart start post-pandemic
MARK W. SCHAEFER: We’re going to guess wrong on everything coming out of the pandemic because so much has been changed. And it's going to take us a generation to understand how this has impacted us individuals as well as our world. So that's why in this era of unintended consequences, I encourage people in business and in marketing to really be patient. Along with that, I encourage them to renew their connection with their customers and intently listen to what's going on. I don't think 2020 or even 2021 is an aberration, it's not a change, it's not a blip. It's a reset. So any data before 2020, I don't even look at anymore.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: How do these trends align with the ideas in your newest book “Cumulative Advantage?”
MARK W. SCHAEFER: I actually started writing this book in the summer of 2019, way before the pandemic. And then all hell broke loose. So I had to consider: Is this book still a book? Is it still relevant? I ended up sending what I had written so far to a trusted friend, and he said, "Not only is this relevant, it's more relevant. This is not just a book. This is going to be your legacy because it is such an important book for our times.”
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: Can you share more here?
MARK W. SCHAEFER: One of the big ideas in the book is that it's about momentum, right? So I think there's one compelling question for all of us as podcasters, as authors, as businesspeople, as marketers, and it's this: How can we be heard? How do we stand out? How are we seen? How can we be discovered in this noisy world?
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: I like your point about momentum.
MARK W. SCHAEFER: For sure. In doing research on this theme, I found that momentum really begins with whatever initial advantage you might have. It could be your heritage, it could be an idea, it could be a connection you have. It could be almost anything really. So the question becomes, how do you apply that instead of the status quo? How do we apply it to some shift, some change that's going on?
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: And all of this in the middle of a pandemic?
MARK W. SCHAEFER: Yes. So let's talk about the pandemic. I would argue that this may be the greatest status quo fracture in the history of the human race. Because we are now reinventing or reimagining almost everything — how we work, where we work… You and I had a conversation about that earlier, right? How we are learning. How we are reinventing our relationship with food. How we work out at the gym. How we are teaching our children. Almost everything is changing.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: What sort of opportunities do you believe can ensue from this?
MARK W. SCHAEFER: With this massive amount of change, there are now a huge number of unmet or underserved customer needs, which are all business opportunities. So while the pandemic might seem overwhelming and sad, it also represents an incredible time of opportunity for all of us. We just need to think in those terms with respect to creating momentum.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: One of the things that companies are grappling with though is a worker shortage tied to the "Great Resignation." Can you discuss this?
MARK W. SCHAEFER: You know, companies can have the best-laid plans in the world, but if they don't have the folks to really deliver it, well then, that’s a problem. And those workers who are still at it are probably hearing from their friends who have left and are exploring a passion like climbing the Alps or whatever.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: HA [laughter]. Yea, they may be deciding that the company they are with isn’t such a good fit after all, particularly if they were furloughed or laid off for a stretch and left in a lurch.
MARK W. SCHAEFER: Well, one of the things we've seen — and by the way, with your previous background in HR, I really defer to your expertise in this area — the statistics I'm seeing, showed something like 60 percent of all US adult males and 54 percent of all adult females are reporting that they’re planning to quit their job. That’s kind of mind-blowing. One of the things about the pandemic is that it seems to be amplifying and accelerating trends. So things that we thought might be happening five years from now or ten years from now, are all happening now.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: It’s certainly fascinating to observe all of this
MARK W. SCHAEFER: It sure is. And one of the things we saw, even before the pandemic, is that work now has a whole new meaning for Gen Zers. I read somewhere before the pandemic that the number one factor that Gen Z’ers are seeking in an employer is the ability to work “whenever they want to work." Now, for someone like you and me, that seems like a pretty foreign concept.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: So what do you really believe is fueling all of the reticence about work and having a W-2 job?
MARK W. SCHAEFER: With what happened during the pandemic and all the massive changes that were taking place, the government actually stepped in to provide people with some unemployment money that was topped up. So, instead of people panicking and thinking, "Oh, I've got to get a job right away,” it gave them time to think, “I can step back and really take a look at this, and reassess where I’m headed.” In fact, I saw a post recently on Instagram that at first blush was kind of hilarious. The post said, "I don't know if I want to go back to work or move to Italy and start over."
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: HA! Yes! So how do you believe that companies can begin to address this?
MARK W. SCHAEFER: What we're seeing is a challenge around relevance, right? Now, to connect as a company, as a brand, as an employer, it's not just enough to give people pay and benefits. People want to see something else. They want to feel like they're contributing to something, they're part of something, they're doing something better for the world.
Maybe relevance means creating some opportunity for people to live where they want to live, work where they want to work, or even work when they want to work. So to be successful, companies have to sort of say, "Okay, how are we not just a relevant company or a relevant brand, but a relevant employer?" It can be scary, but it can also be a huge opportunity.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: Which essentially ties back to the importance of marketing?
MARK W. SCHAEFER: That’s right
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: It’s about how you market to this newly-fangled audience, per se.
MARK W. SCHAEFER: For sure. Yeah. I think there's a whole need for marketing in lots of different parts of the company, especially in HR because it is so competitive, right? They’ve going to have to market themselves in a new way in order to attract new talent.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: Speaking of marketing and even advertising, one of the things that I have been increasingly noticing and have found rather interesting since George Floyd’s death and the racial justice movement is that suddenly in a lot of media ads and commercials, there are all sorts of people of color being featured and represented. Mark, talk to me a little bit about this new narrative. In other words, is this truly making an impact or do you think this could potentially backfire in terms of an overreach?
MARK W. SCHAEFER: Well, I have a saying that marketers flock to whatever is popular until they ruin it. And I think maybe you're seeing some of that in the marketing and the advertising that is currently out there these days. Here’s an analogy — I think there’s a danger of woke-washing where, say, you could be the dirtiest polluter in the world, but when you look at the website it looks like Greenpeace or something like that, right? In other words, these advertisers may be trying to present an image that's not really true.
One of my favorite quotes from the Marketing Rebellion book that I wrote a few years ago, comes from a brand manager at Nike who says, "To be successful today, you can't just be in a community. You have to be part of a community." Now, being in a community is saying the right things. Being in a community is giving a donation to something. But on the other hand, being part of a community is rolling up your sleeves and freaking doing something. That’s what's going to be successful long-term, I'm 100 percent convinced of it.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: All of this is so interesting to observe for sure.
MARK W. SCHAEFER: At the beginning of the pandemic, the brands that were tied to advertising scripts said, "We are with you in these unprecedented times." Sure, they were saying the right thing, just like having diverse representation in advertising is another way to say the right thing. But over time it became a joke, it became a meme. There was actually a YouTube video that said, "All pandemic advertising is the same." And it had these quick cuts of all of these brand ads. They had the same music. They had the same voiceover. They were saying the same words. It was a joke.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: But what about those companies out there that are approaching this narrative differently?
MARK W. SCHAEFER: The companies that have rolled up their sleeves and are actually doing something to help people, to show up in a new way, those are the brands and moments we're going to remember. There's a marketer that I admire very much, his name is Martin Lindstrom. He's an author and he's an amazing consultant. He's a very forward-thinking fellow. Martin has said to the effect, "Marketing today, we should take half of our money and show up and really help people, not just say things. This is not about politically correct advertising, but taking half of the money, showing up, and doing something." I believe that too.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: There is a lot of talk about how the pandemic is creating a new normal that's going to be exquisitely more challenging than in the past and how entire industries are going to get destroyed. What are your thoughts here:
MARK W. SCHAEFER: You know, it's hard for me to group that under one umbrella. The subtitle of the Marketing Rebellion book is "The Most Human Company Wins." And I think that general theme is sort of an overarching idea. But I think what I’m seeing these days is more along the lines of microtrends. Here’s an example of what I mean. So before the pandemic, 20 percent of Americans said they suffered from chronic sleep problems. Today, that's more like 60 percent. Now, that's one little thing, but think about the implication of this — 60 percent of our employees are irritable. 60 percent of our customers are irritable. What are the implications for customer service? Where’s the business opportunity in that? That's just one little microfracture in the seam, right? One little microfracture in the status quo. But there are millions of these trends.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: Interesting thought
MARK W. SCHAEFER: And here’s another one: 15 percent of consumers say they will switch to a brand if it's cleaner and more sanitary. What does that mean for a bank? What does that mean for a movie theater? It's, like, change upon change, upon change. And that's why I say the pandemic wasn't a blip, it was a reset because all of these things are going to act in combination igniting a complex cocktail of opportunity. So I don't know if I can name one big thing. What I do know is that it is challenging us to pay attention to everything because not just one thing has changed, everything has changed. Sure, some things will go back. And there are some things that will simply be altered. But some things will never go back.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: What are some of your own personal experiences that have informed your current thinking?
MARK W. SCHAEFER: That’s a great question. So here’s one example from my own life —- when Covid hit, my wife got sick. We both eventually ended up with Covid. I got pretty sick. We had to be quarantined for about two months. She got sick, I got sick. And because we were at home all of the time, we didn't have any way to get food. We couldn't get out in public. So we subscribed to a food delivery service called HelloFresh. It was reasonable and it taught us new recipes. Over time we discovered that we kind of liked it, to the point where we now still get it a couple of times a week. So think of how profound that is, that a portion of our food budget is going to a distribution service I didn't even know existed last January. That's profound. And that's just one little thing.
DIAMOND-MICHAEL: So what do you think all of this suggests for the days ahead?
MARK W. SCHAEFER: We’re being sliced, and diced, and reassembled in so many new ways. It's going to be different for everybody. In my view, this is a pretty exciting time to be in business. And it’s certainly an exciting time to be in marketing because times like this are where people are open to new ideas.
Generally, we're creatures of habit. We just keep buying the same thing over and over again. But when we leave home, when we get married, when we have a baby, these are portals to new ideas and new products. This pandemic should be viewed as a new portal. It's a new opportunity for new ways of thinking, and new products, and new ways of just living.
DIAMOND MICHAEL: Here’s my final question — In light of all these discoveries and your new book, Cumulative Advantage, if you had to add an additional chapter based on what you've discovered over the past six to eight months, what would you add?
MARK SCHAEFER: Well, I think I'd probably add a sentence -- maybe just one paragraph at the end saying, "See, I was right. I was right. I was right. Go do this. Go do this now. I was absolutely right.” I didn't know at the time whether I was going to be right. But everything I predicted is now coming true. So go understand how momentum works and go do this because it really works.